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Makotosun

source coil output at crank over?

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Replied by Knutco11 on topic source coil output at crank over?

I had a very questionable magneto come with one of my rt3 engines. they had the charging/lighting coils tapped into the ignition circuit. No idea if it worked, didn't bother to try it. I ended up unwinding the coils, because they were buggered up anyway. As rt325 mentioned, I noticed they have the ignition source coil tied into about a row and a half of windings on one of the charge coils, then to ground. I am also curious why they did that?
Although I did initially have issues with spark, until I wired it properly..

I'm too dumb to get into all of the scope checking stuff, but I would double check your points are grounding when closed, and actually open, when open.  I've seen alot of "new" points grounded out, right out of the box.  Also simply check the ohm readings on your primary, and secondary windings of the ignition coil.  If either of those readings are too far off, it probably won't have spark.  The specs can be found in a service manual, which are available on this site.  Probably isn't said enough, but thank you to all that have contributed to this wealth of knowledge!!
Last edit: 21 Jan 2024 16:43 by Knutco11.
21 Jan 2024 16:35 #51

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Replied by RT325 on topic source coil output at crank over?

Just to throw another spanner in the works--i've had a yamy 100 running via the lowest output lighting coil wire. Highest output sent the points into arc welder mode.
I did that mainly to prove the ignition source was faulty--& in desperation to hear it run haha.
By memory i just snipped the wire to the condenser from the source then simply poked the lighting coil wire in up top at the secondary coil connection so it just fed back down.
Could run the condenser externaly up top also if you wanted, or anywhere it can be earthed then hook it into 'that' secondary coil primary wire.
Electricity doesn't seem to care so long as it can get there.
Reminds me of -- umm 1967 i think--& my T100 Metisse motocrosser stuffed the stator for the AC ignition.
The original type was wound for "that" job & was either unobtainable or cost the earth.
I bought an ordinary stator for a 5TA triumph motor which had multiple charging wires [5TA had battery ignition]. Then me knowing everything--"not"-- thought more AC power better spark & go faster.
Yeah rite!! Picked the two highest voltages, not equal voltage but close, & one lead to each plug coil to feed down to the points. The shed lit up like an arc welder & it misfired hoplessly.
So reversed my thinking & used the lowest outputs then rode off into the sunset & was good for ever more.
I guess the proper stator was wound to a limit for its windings for each cylinder.
Same for whatever bike 'you are' trying to get sparking--source will be wound in such a way that the voltage doesnt get out of hand at high revs--i'm guessing on that.
I did wonder nowdays if i did it all again on my 100cc or similar, if i could run a single wire ac regulator that yamaha use as a bulb saving regulator & getaway with the lighting coil trick in a better way.
Might need a 12 volt ac single wire regulator rather than 6volt as might stop the voltage too low. Which reminds me somewhere i kept a single wire 12 volt reg out of my car alternator just incase i had a plan oneday!!. That probably keeps it to about 14.5 ac volts at a guess. Little square thing with one short wire.

Sorry, not sure how i ended up here & shouldn't be hogging this post with my crap but just reminiscing haha as past doing it nowdays.
Miss my Metisse, great sound of a twin on full song.
photos.app.goo.gl/dtrfU6E9TzwTsTHF7
photos.app.goo.gl/C8nB8PbQ4x38TvUZ7
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Last edit: 21 Jan 2024 17:02 by RT325.
21 Jan 2024 16:49 #52

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Replied by RT325 on topic source coil output at crank over?

Knutco, yes it's all a bit beyond me too. I just poke till i see smoke--there it is. Interesting reading up on info from guys that know--even if i don't understand it!! Cheers.
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21 Jan 2024 17:06 #53

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Replied by Knutco11 on topic source coil output at crank over?

Rt325, It's mind boggling to think how hard you guys rode those bikes, with the major lack of suspension and weight.  That goes over alot of people's heads nowadays...
21 Jan 2024 17:12 #54

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Replied by Ht1kid on topic source coil output at crank over?

Rt325 great pic keep them coming I had a 50cc maverick back in 69 
21 Jan 2024 19:22 #55

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Replied by Rapidrob on topic source coil output at crank over?

UPDATE: it has been in the 20's F here. just too cold to yank the engine head and verify the timing. I'll post some more photos and how the lack of spark is progressing.
25 Jan 2024 08:09 #56

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Replied by Rapidrob on topic source coil output at crank over?

Today was in the 40's F. I pulled the head off of the engine a rigged-up a device to hold the dial indicator. My first idea did not work.
I found the "slack" in the piston rod journals / gears was not much, less than .003 of play.
I had to figure out how in the heck to keep the 2.9 M/M BTDC flywheel from moving as it is spring loaded. I found a 1/2 drive socket wrench weight was just enough to hold it....sort of. Any movement of the points setting would move the flywheel.
I set the "points just opening" at 2.9 m/m ( converted to inches) and put things back together. I verified the reading many times to be sure. A metal slide depth gauge showed 3mm
No spark.
i.imgur.com/lfiu4nY.jpg
i.imgur.com/yjS3I9Y.jpg
29 Jan 2024 14:39 #57

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Replied by DaveHunter on topic source coil output at crank over?

Anybody else on here remember old timers testing by holding spark plug,   Plug in your hand and thumb on the block ?  
Probably wet hands could detect level of primary voltage with a buddy kicking it over
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29 Jan 2024 18:28 #58

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  • MarkT
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Replied by MarkT on topic source coil output at crank over?

Timing is set at 1.8mm or 2.0mm BTDC on a 125/175 depending on year and model.  2.9 is a spec for the bigger bikes. 
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
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29 Jan 2024 19:15 #59

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Replied by MarkT on topic source coil output at crank over?

DaveHunter...  when I was a kid I showed up at my best friend's house to go riding after school..  They were tearing into the ignition because the bike wouldn't start.  He had a nearly new Kawasaki F7 and was sure it had to be spark but it was a bright sunny day and if I remember correctly he was using those goofy "surface gap" plugs so it was hard to see spark.  I said I really doubted it was spark... so we got his little brother to stick his finger in the plug cap while Jeff kicked it over.  Boy did he jump! 

Moral:  Best to use someone else's finger when using that old fashioned test method. 

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(Oh and the bike?  Jeff had filled the tank the night before so it would be ready to go after school...  what he didn't know was while we were at school his older brother went riding and ran it out of gas.  Jeff didn't check because he knew it was full.)
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
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29 Jan 2024 19:26 #60

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