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Makotosun

78 DT400 front wheel not centered

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Replied by Tinkicker on topic 78 DT400 front wheel not centered

As far as I can see. Your wheel is laced up wrong. It needs the right hand spokes loosening and left tightening. If you look at the spokes left and right, I bet there is a significant difference in amount of thread showing above the nipple.

If there isnt, it has the wrong spoke set.
21 Nov 2023 12:03 #11

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  • klp
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Replied by klp on topic 78 DT400 front wheel not centered

OK again I thank you all for your help. Things like this often lead to me walking away for a while - nice to have another set of eyes.

I have the forks off the bike, springs spacer and oil drained mostly out - neither one moves full stroke without some binding. The left fork compresses about 3" shy of full then tightens up. The right side only moves about 3 inches before it binds up hard.

Does this indicate bent/damaged lowers? It's embarrassing that I overlooked this earlier but I was just sooooooo excited to have straight fork tubes.

It is a shame because cosmetically these are in great shape - not even clear coat damage. Any chance of repair??

Thank you again.

KP
21 Nov 2023 14:17 #12

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  • RT325
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Replied by RT325 on topic 78 DT400 front wheel not centered

I'm many post behind but looking at the first pic the build is all wrong. I'll catch up later. But can see the spokes on the brake side looking straight on, maybe you always can not sure but not that much. Depermining factor at the moment is brake anchor engagement so probably no room for machining of the brake plate as it comes up to the fork axle lug. Take the tyre off & see if the spokes are dissapearing out of the nipples [like holding by a thread only] on the brake side. Unlikely that's the case. & if it was then there'd be 10mm sitting above the other side nipples which might've been trimmed off flush or you'd have umm 18 punctures on inflating the tube. Stupid comment i know lol--but she ain't right that's for sure.
Last edit: 21 Nov 2023 16:07 by RT325.
21 Nov 2023 16:05 #13

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Replied by Pete-RT1 on topic 78 DT400 front wheel not centered

I've had a look at all the photos several times and from what I can see the hub offset looks wrong.
The reason I think this is the amount the tyre seems to be off centre, if the fork lowers were the cause I think it would be very easy to visually see the bend.
Have you or anyone else re-laced the wheel?
Yamaha CT1-B
Yamaha CT1-C
Yamaha AT1-E
Yamaha AT1-C
Yamaha CT3
1978 Yamaha DT175MX
2020 Honda CB500X
22 Nov 2023 12:07 #14

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Replied by klp on topic 78 DT400 front wheel not centered

Thanks all. Hope you all enjoy the holiday - well those stateside anyhow!

I have not laced the wheel, I do not have the chops to do it. I am not sure if it has ever been done - this bike I have owned for a long time apart and just the last year or so I have been paying attention to it.

I would be very happy if that is the problem but I have removed the fork springs and can't move the tubes full travel in the lowers. Per RT I think this indicates they are damaged.

I didn't even think that was possible - my thoughts were the tubes would absorb the energy and the lowers were string enough. Maybe not the case.

Please understand I am open to any and all ideas, and I will pursue them to the end.
23 Nov 2023 07:18 #15

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Replied by MarkT on topic 78 DT400 front wheel not centered

You're there and we're not so can't comment too much on bent lowers except that it's highly unusual.  Make sure there aren't any burrs on the end of the tubes and that the damping rods are not damaged.

Another problem can be "wheel tilt".  If the left fork tube is slid up through the clamps slightly more than the right tube for example.  Holding a long straight edge against the tire and seeing if parallel to fork tubes can spot this...  rotate wheel and try in a few spots to rule out effects of a slightly wobbly wheel.

I also mentioned the correct Yamaha process for installing the wheel which in your your pictures you didn't show...  you must install and TIGHTEN the axle nut BEFORE clamping the axle with the cap on the left side.  This pulls the wheel and brake tight against the left lower.  Then, like I said on mine with just a light tug by hand I could pull the right lower over to be flush with end of spacer, tighten the cap (close down the front gap first), and viola! the wheel was pretty darn near perfectly centered.  Goofy process that didn't seem "right" but the forks on mine didn't seem to bind at all. 

(The first time I had the front wheel off and struggled with wheel centering, I rotated the upper tubes and the fork tubes seemed straight as an arrow.  My wheel had a slight wobble and knobby front tire would actually rub a little on right side until I installed the wheel as described above.)

If it were me, installing the wheel as described is what I'd try.  If wheel looks pretty near centered, you can then hold the front brake and bounce the front end pretty far through the travel...  with a friend you can probably bottom out the front suspension if you tried.  Or use tie downs like you're securing the bike for transport and tighten them down to compress and release the suspension to look for any obvious binding. 

If it seems okay, ride it. 

P.S.  I see what people are talking about with the wheel lacing...  but I also know parallax and even camera lenses can really create illusions...  so can't comment if lacing offset looks right or not. 
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
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23 Nov 2023 08:02 #16

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Replied by klp on topic 78 DT400 front wheel not centered

Thanks Mark. Agreed interweb diagnosis is hard lol.

I did install the wheel per the manual - I know my pics did not show that. Axle tight, I have got to pull the forks so the right spacer is beyond flush to get the wheel centered. If I pull it flush it still needs another 3/16 or so to get the wheel centered. Right spacer recessed 3/16 if that makes sense.

Maybe I should have led with this but the bike suffered trauma at some point. Both fork tubes were bent 1/4" just below the lower triple. No other damage that I could find. The wheel spins true.

Right now the forks are off the bike and the springs, spacer and caps are out. I can not move them smoothly full travel. Each one binds at a different point. The tubes are not damaged (anymore!). I don't know what damage to look for on the damping rods, I did inspect and they looked fine.

I appreciate all the input - enjoy your families! I am going to do the same.
Last edit: 23 Nov 2023 08:28 by klp.
23 Nov 2023 08:26 #17

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Replied by MarkT on topic 78 DT400 front wheel not centered

Should be a DID front wheel and usually there is a month/year stamped near valve stem or rim lock in that era... normally date on a 78 would be 77 or so...  and rear usually has date close to front wheel.  Maybe check to see if perhaps someone bent the wheel and then laced a new one incorrectly?

Also. 3/16" isn't much.  one fork just slightly lower than the other makes a big difference.  If I remember on my 77 the groove on left tube had to be a tiny bit lower to get wheel parallel to fork tubes... like half the height of the groove.
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
23 Nov 2023 08:50 #18

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Replied by RT325 on topic 78 DT400 front wheel not centered

I'm not sure how offset from center the axle lug is but can you turn the slider half a turn & bolt the wheel up without the brake anchor lug locating the plate just to see what changes. Turn the right side maybe too.
Wheel looks vertical in the pic so still thing its just built wrong.
Did the hub brake diameter change a little through those years so spokes on the brake side could be longer by a fraction then ended up built over the other way more than central, or as it should be.
Binding forks in the sliders isn't good though.
A good check is in the vice with the legs horizontaly & 'carefully' then look end on at the allen damper screw while revolving the sliders.
Any slider bend will be obvious to see.
If it all looks straight just loosen the damper bolt & retighten with the forks in the binding area.
Or if that doesn't work try bottoming it out fully while tightening to see what changes.
I might be a bit behind on all this so ignore me if i'm yet to catch up & my post isn't relevant.
Last edit: 23 Nov 2023 18:51 by RT325.
23 Nov 2023 18:49 #19

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Replied by klp on topic 78 DT400 front wheel not centered

Again let me express my gratitude for all who have contributed here. In the spirit of full disclosure I do not do well with unsolved mechanical puzzles.

I have disassembled the right side fork entirely - damping rod looks good and moves smoothly full travel. With the damping rod removed the tube alone binds hard in the lower about 8" from the top. There was also an alarming amount of 'glitter' in the fork oil considering it was fresh and the bike has been ridden <2 miles. The tube is straight - rolls nice and even on a flat surface.

If I can be certain there are a couple options on Ebay right now - I just want to be sure as I already spent a good bit repairing the tubes. Could a machinist use a bore gauge to verify the integrity of the lowers? How do you know for sure if they are good or bad?

Several have also commented on my wheel lacing. Again - how do I know and confirm/measure that it is correct? If you look from the top it really depends where you look from. Move a bit left or right and it looks off. I can provide more pics if needed.

I would prefer not to remove the tire as there are few things I enjoy less than bead locks...

TY
Last edit: 24 Nov 2023 13:30 by klp.
24 Nov 2023 07:15 #20

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