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Makotosun

Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

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Replied by Pete-RT1 on topic Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

Headlight won't work without engine running
Yamaha CT1-B
Yamaha CT1-C
Yamaha AT1-E
Yamaha AT1-C
Yamaha CT3
1978 Yamaha DT175MX
2020 Honda CB500X
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04 Apr 2023 01:49 #11

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Replied by SKYDANCER46 on topic Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

Engine needs to be running for headlight to work. I wouldn't change out the ignition system. These old stator plate points systems work great and are a very simple design. Very reliable. I have seen and worked on dozens of these bikes over the years ( some been sitting 40 years ) and never had a issue. Most the time i only have to replace the points in them. I don't even change out the original condensers 90% of the time. . Again i don't see much damage in your pictures and it doesn't look like someones been in there hacking things up which is a good thing.  

I would start with the basics and put the original coil back on since the new one didn't help. Make sure your sparkplug cap is good and screwed on the wire tight. Sometimes taking the cap off and cutting a 1/4 inch off the wire then screwing the cap back on helps. Make sure to use a non resistor sparkplug. Be sure to gap the sparkplug correct. Change out the points using new (Yamaha ) points. Yes there expensive! Be sure to have the insulator correct and wire from the condenser connected to the points correctly. Check all wire connection to the stator by pulling all bullet connectors apart and make sure there clean and no wires are broke or loose. Clean the flywheel good on the inside. make sure the key is good on the crank and you install the flywheel correctly. Clean the points even if new with a contact cleaner then a buisness card ran thru them a few times. Set your point gap to .013. With key on sparkplug out of head and connected to the sparkplug wire and laying it on the cylinder fins making sure the threads of the sparkplug are contacting the fins this should get you spark when kicking over the engine. If all else is good then engine should run. You can set timing later after you get it running if you so desire.

If no spark after all that then look up the service manual for your bike here in the tech link and start testing each componet as listed in the service manual. Like i said there isn't much to these old stator Ignition system that can go wrong.  Most the time it's in the points. pitted or not clean or not adjusted correctly or someone didn't install the wire right on the points or a bad wire connection somewhere. 

1970 DT250C
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Last edit: 05 Apr 2023 06:12 by SKYDANCER46.
04 Apr 2023 08:32 #12

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Replied by SKYDANCER46 on topic Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

Just a example on how good these old point ignition systems are. I bought 3 DT1 250's in the last 6 months. 1968,70 and 71. All 3 have not run in years and none had spark when i got them home. 1st thing i did was remove the flywheels to inspect the points, wires and coils on all 3 bikes. I cleaned and adjusted the original points on the 70 and 71.Took them right off the stator plate to clean them good.  Didn't even replace them becuase there was no pitting. Bam, good spark! The 68 i had to install new points because it had bad water damage in the flywheel area. But even then after cleaning up all the corrosion that was on the coils, backing plate and wires and installing a new set of points it gets good spark. I  didn't even change the condenser on that bike. I just test started the 68 the other day for the 1st time in probably 40 years and it started right up and runs good.  Still has the original ignition system and condenser. Bike is 55 years old!

1970 DT250C
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Last edit: 05 Apr 2023 06:14 by SKYDANCER46.
04 Apr 2023 09:03 #13

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Replied by nersasian on topic Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

Wow, good to hear! I will clean everything up and see what happens. I did already put on a new set of points (got off ebay, from K&S) sounds like I might be better off putting on the old points and cleaning them up. I did notice that when I took off the side cover, it had a little oil in the bottom of the cover. Does that mean that the crank seal is going bad? Don't know if there is any easy fix for that, but I'm sure that any oil in that area will screw with the ignition. Also, I'm pretty sure I have the black wire on the points correctly, but is there something trick or different that I don't know? I also bought a new condenser off ebay, haven't put it on yet, but are they potentially not as good as the factory Yamaha condenser that's on it assuming it is not damaged in some way? Thanks for the help.
04 Apr 2023 10:14 #14

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Replied by Ht1kid on topic Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

Skydancer really good info and how to’s for anyone having issues. 

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04 Apr 2023 15:20 #15

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Replied by SKYDANCER46 on topic Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

Nersasian,

A little oil from a leaking crank seal won't keep it from getting spark. Yes oil in that area could be a bad crank seal. Not hard to replace. As for the points just be sure to have the little insulators on each side of the points frame and the metal spring steel tab from the points on the outside of it and the wire from the condenser on the outside on the other side where the tiny bolt goes thru and you tighten the nut on all of it. Have the nut on the wire side. You don't want the metal spring tab from the points or the wire from the condenser touching the points body. 

I've personally can't remember the last time i seen a bad condenser on these bikes and i have worked on many over the last 30 years. That's how rare they go bad. It's up to you if you think you need to replace it. Be sure to solder the wires on it good without touching the condenser body if you do decide to replace it. As for aftermarket points, I don't use them! Unless OEM's are not available. 

1970 DT250C
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Last edit: 05 Apr 2023 06:17 by SKYDANCER46.
04 Apr 2023 15:53 #16

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Replied by nersasian on topic Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

It looks like I have the points hooked up exactly the way you mentioned. I will try everything first before messing with the condenser and see if it is working. That little 1/4" tab that's bolted to the coil just to the right of the points is sticking straight out off the coil into air. Not sure what that does, but is that the way it's supposed to look? Again, thanks for all the help here in the forum. I'm a pretty handy guy and I love working on these bikes (and riding them), but I'm realizing how much I just don't know. 

The Stable
1970 RT1
1969 DT1
1970 AT1
1971 DT1
1970 CT70H honda
1975 TM250 suzuki
1978 RM400 suzuki
05 Apr 2023 08:02 #17

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Replied by nersasian on topic Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

What ignition kit did you use and where did you get it? Thanks
05 Apr 2023 09:34 #18

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Replied by SKYDANCER46 on topic Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

The little tab is a timing reference that aligns with a small line (mark) on the flywheel when the flywheel is on the engine. Can't tell by your pictures but they can get  bent or moved around so not always reliable to go off of. You can check yours when you do the proper timing proceedure with your dial gauge and see if it lines up right. 

Ignition kit? I mentioned i have a stock non advance flywheel and stator assembly for these bikes. Used on many 250's and some 360's without the advance set up.

Here is a picture of it.

 
 

1970 DT250C
10 Apr 2023 11:16 #19

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Replied by nersasian on topic Lack of, or weak spark from my 1970 RT1

I just set new points at .12, reinstalled the flywheel and kicked it over to see if I had spark at the plug. Nothing. I then replaced the condenser as well, reinstalled the flywheel and kicked it over and no spark at the plug. I guess I'm in over my head. I didn't think it would be that hard. Not sure how to check anything, just frustrated!

Somebody mentioned earlier about going electronic, getting rid of the old points system, so I was asking about that. If anyone had success with a system like that on a RT1. I would like to be able to take this bike out on day trips and rely that it's not going to break down. I know that's asking a lot, but still asking.

As far as your system (non advance flywheel), isn't the one I have with the advance a better system for the RT1? I thought that, but maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks for the help.
10 Apr 2023 16:15 #20

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