Tom, I have thought of similar, maybe going to another DMV.  I have never cared much for the local one. 
Pretty sure, AK = VLF Class

 

Surely there have been enough old bikes resurrected now for the relevant authorities to have developed a procedure, flow chart or whatever, and for this information to be shared within and between offices? Or maybe there's such a high turnover of staff that each new case is always the employee's first one? 

It sounds like it is easier for us here in the UK to register a US bike than it is for you guys over there!

There are quite a few vintage bikes around me. In fact I often go to a vintage bike meet held every month, and many of the folks that show up have numerous vintage bikes they've restored and plated, and they're always searching for new ones to restore. So perhaps my local DMV is a little bit more experienced in it?

There's also a place nearby that partners with the DMV called Quick Plates, that usually charges an extra fee, but sometimes they can handle difficult cases. You might want to give them a call and see if they can help. I don't know if they could handle it over the phone and by email, or if you'd have to drive in, but they're here in Huntington Beach, CA.
www.quickplates.com/

 

Its getting spicy now. Went to a different DMV today, intentionally at last minute. Changed bike to "EN" again. So far it went, MC, EN, MC, EN. Of course body type is only stage-1 of the gauntlet.

Today, they charged me for a registration. According to the rep, pending completion of VSSI (stage II of the gauntlet), a plate/sticker will be issued.  OF COURSE we discussed theoretical dream land where I don't have to do this. 

Monday, the final chapter.

BTW, Tom tell us more on 30 years of back fees. Curious how you navigated that one.

I know I probably sounded harsh in my earlier post but I spent a lot of my life in the transportation industry and dealing with governmental issues.  

I wish you the best of luck trying to get things "changed".  In my experience, that's not likely to happen.  

If the bike was off the books and then your were issued an off road title, either you or someone in the government made a mistake.  My guess is the DMV or CHP.  The case has to be made that the off road title was a mistake.  It needs to be voided (not "changed") and the correct title issued.  

It's obvious you don't have that mindset though as you went way out of your way to install turn signals on a bike that never had and does not legally need them.  I get it.  I've done it.  And I learned a long time ago that logic will bury you with entities like the DMV and CHP.  You need to know the law, have your documentation and proof lined up and easy to follow, and stick to your guns. 

That doesn't mean get nasty or yell or anything like that.  Actually the opposite is true.  Be nice.  And do whatever you can to make it super easy for them.  More than once I've gone to the DMV or CHP with copies of the law, manuals, brochures, magazines, whatever I need to make my case.  

(Oh, and you originally said the original owner kept the plate.  If you can't borrow it, a picture of the bike with it in place would be a great idea.  You've gone silent on that when Tom mentioned something similar)

Like one of my old bosses used to say "get your ducks in a row". 

I also know I rub some people the wrong way so I'm not going to post on this again.  

I have a strong feeling Tom P. might understand what I'm saying.  So the best advice I have is to listen to him if you won't listen to anyone else.  

What you're attempting is not fun or easy. I truly wish you the best of luck!

Padbt, when I went in my CT1 hadn't been on the road in 30 years. A PNO had been filed, and I absolutely know that, but I did not have a copy of it. I did have a title on it, and I had the original license plate, with the last year sticker on it around 1992. While I was working on the bike, I had an official VIN checker come out to fill out the proper form, and I think I paid 80 bucks for that. So with all that, I thought I had my ducks pretty much in a row. I decided to go to AAA first, but they said it had fallen completely out of the system, and they couldn't help me. I had to go to DMV.

The first DMV trip seemed to go pretty well. They filled everything out, and I signed an affidavit under penalty of perjury that the bike had been in storage for the past 30 years. I paid the fees and they sent the package to Sacramento. About 3 weeks or so later the entire package came back to me, claiming that the blue plate was not original. They said it had too many numbers or not enough, but they were wrong, it IS the original plate. In fact it was the same number on one registration card I had presented to them, and was in the package.

So back to the DMV I go, and I decided to forget the original for now, just give me a white one, and maybe I'll get the original one transferred back to it later. So I get the white plate and go to another window, thinking I'm going home today with the new plate and registration. They're looking at the paperwork and punching in numbers, then the guy says "you're going to have to take this to CHP for a VIN check". I said you have a VIN check in your hand from a certified vin checker. I paid for it. He said no, it has to go to CHP.

So... I make an appointment with CHP for about a month later, rent a U-Haul trailer and take it up there, and the guy kind of rolls his eyes and goes that's the DMV for you. He didn't look at my lights or horn or anything, he just looked at the VIN on the engine and frame and filled out the form, just like the other vin checker did, and I thanked him and came home.

So next trip to DMV I'm thinking this is it, I'm finally going to get everything taken care of. The clerk calls a supervisor over to check everything out, he's looking at all the paperwork, then says "you're going to have to pay registration for the past 30 years". I resisted flying through the ceiling, then calmly but firmly told him I already signed an affidavit under penalty of perjury that it had been in storage for 30 years, and I have jumped through every hoop you guys have put in front of me, and chose not to use my original license plate, because Sacramento said it was not the original plate, when it is, so just give me the license plate, stickers and paperwork, because I'm not paying another penny. He paused for a second, then looked at the clerk and said it give it to him.

So like Mark said, just get all your ducks in a row and be firm with them, but resist the urge to call them all effing idiots, which is exactly what they are 


 

I just want a plate. If someone has a great idea, I'M IN! BTW, the guys Tom listed above said nope, can't do it but thanks Tom for the reference.

Let me clarify a few things. Based on a document I have, a case could also made that the title was intentionally changed this way.

Case in point, the owner gave me a registration from 1997 that indicated OFF HIGHWAY. That means it has probably been this way 29 Years. If you disagree, you are wrong, using your own logic. haha, just kidding. If he did not want it registered in this manner, would he not have changed it stating it was done wrong? Now, to make your case valid, he would have to have rode it on the road 29 years with no sticker and no complaints to DMV about their alleged mistake. Even the DMV would likely have corrected such an error if he complained they made one.

2nd case in point, you would have to know the guy I got it from. He was an MX type. The original rider was a street rider and was the persons' only transportation at the time. The other spouse, the rider for the last 29 years, more a dirt guy that didn't care at all about the street. I'm "guessing" it was registered the entire time, else fees from the past could have been ugly. Tom, still waiting on the story.

3rd case, the plate? That as the first thing I looked for weeks ago. It doesn't exist. Keep in mind, we are past arguing whether it can be put on street. They agree to that. Their logic is the VSSI crap. No pics, no docs. THAT IS my fault. Had I known the day I was buying the bike, there would not have been a deal made. I have to say the CT1 was a fairly pleasurable build though.
I can see why others enjoy it. You know what sucks? It runs really well.

"I also know I rub some people the wrong way so I'm not going to post on this again"
You are like a walking encylopedia (ok, maybe the digital version) on Yamahas. I can appreciate that and approve the rubbing if it means I can read cool stuff sometimes.

Need to regroup.

The bottom line is the CT1 was manufactured for dual use. If someone rode it on the street for a while, then decided they wanted to put an off-road sticker on it, so they wouldn't have to pay liability insurance, and because they no longer cared to ride on the street, that doesn't mean it can't be transferred back to street use. It seems like a big obstacle is that the DMV clerks don't seem to understand that the CT1 was only manufactured for dual use. They also don't seem to understand that it does not require turn signals, nor an emissions test. Perhaps you can ask them to look it up on Google, as you're waiting there by the window?

I wonder if it would help to write a statement that the bike had originally been registered for street, then registered off-road for a period of time, then stored on private property, and have the previous owner sign that with a notary present? You can have that done at any AIM Mail center, very cheaply. Just take her with you and have her sign the statement there, and they'll stamp it.

 I explained above how I avoided paying the 30 years past registration, you were probably writing your post as I was writing. I firmly insisted that I was not going to pay it, and had signed an affidavit under penalty of perjury that it had been in storage on private property all those years, and it had been. They have that form at the DMV, I don't remember the number, but it's there.

If you have any other reason to drive down to Costa Mesa, you might want to come by my local DMV and give it a shot here. You wouldn't have to bring the bike, just bring current pictures, bring your paperwork, then see what they say. You have the law and facts on your side, you just need to find someone who understands them.

I just found the form that I filled out. It's called a Statement of Facts form REG 256. I remember now I downloaded it and typed it out at home, and took it in with me. On the second page there is a large area where you can write the story of the motorcycle, explaining that it had been originally registered for street, then for off-road for a period of time, then stored. Also that it originally had a license plate, and if you have that license plate number that would help, even though it's out of the system. Just put together as convincing and complete of a factual story as you can. Also attach that notarized statement from the PO I suggested if you can, and ask them to look again for the old license plate. Who throws away an old license plate???

irp.cdn-website.com/3f72d434/files/uploa...0%28REG%20256%29.pdf


 

It's still not clear to me if this bike was in the system when you went to the DMV?

And the "off road registration" doesn't mean anything in California.  They have something called "dual registration".  Back in the day, many people got green stickers for their Enduros because some areas in California would give you a ticket for riding off road with a street license plate on a bike that wasn't fully street legal.  No joke.  It's a complicated and confusing policy.  

I just found this:  www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/vehicle-i...-ohv-identification/

And it led me to this:  www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/vehicle-i...e-description-error/

You might just need a REG256 to submit an error was made on the type of title?  Like I said, claiming an "honest mistake" is a lot different that trying to get something "changed" when dealing with DMV.  A mistake can be fixed.  A change requires you to meet all the requirements for the change.

There is a table of contents so it looks like you can access the entire DMV procedures manuals?  I used to have a hard copy I got from a neighbor who worked for the DMV before they moved to our neighborhood.  It can be very helpful to know what their rules and procedures say.  The hard part is talking to them without making them "wrong" and getting their defenses up.  

They are used to be yelled at and cussed out.  The trick seems to be being super nice but firm and with all your ducks in a row.

Here in Nevada I had an issue with a new van titled incorrectly.  It was a 1 ton work van and they titled it as a 1/2 ton.  That was critical on a commercial vehicle!  I worked with 2 DMV offices with no luck.  (Nevada has hired a lot of DMV workers who moved here from California.) I finally had to call Carson City and talk to the main title division.  They called the manager of the local DMV and told them what to do to fix the mistake. The manager was pissed.  Title came back wrong again!  Called Carson City and they gave me the name of a specific person to see at the local DMV.  She was awesome and the problem finally was fixed.  (She told me everyone was wondering why the manager got fired.  And yes, the manager I spoke to that didn't fix it the first time told me she had worked at the California DMV before moving here)

Good luck!  

(It really does piss me off how the DMV treats people in California.  Not a lot different than a "rogue cop" that violates civil rights.  They have a lot of power and they know it.  Important not to trigger their ego)

P.S.  Sometimes a "human interest" story helps a ton.  I'm not suggesting you lie, but a story like "I'm fixing this old bike up for my uncle with cancer who had one when he was a kid" can make a difference if something like that is going on with this bike.  I never had to play that card but I had a friend that used that method to even get out of a CHP VIN inspection once!    

(DMV personnel "can" verify the VIN in California.  They often "don't".  I loved the Wildomar DMV because they never sent me to the CHP)