We're likely talking semantics but I'd never even think of "lowballing" someone.

If someone is asking $5000 for something that's genuinely worth $2000 to me, offering $2000 is what I would call making a fair offer. Just because they are asking a ridiculous price does not make your reasonable offer "lowballing".

(Going in to the deal knowing you could flip the bike and get much more than you're offering would be lowballing. I buy stuff I like and want... I don't buy to "flip" nor do I think about resale value much.)

The value of an old bike like this one is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. And that can vary widely. Someone who had one "just like it" with unlimited disposable income might be willing to pay a very high price....

We all have our likes, dislikes, preferences, and conditions. Your challenge is to find a bike you love that's original and within the budget you set. I think your expectations are reasonable as far as budget, etc.

My point is I would never advocate "lowballing". My advice is and always has been to be honest with yourself and the seller and see what happens. Look at the bike and if you like it, offer a price YOU think is fair to YOU. Be honest with the seller. Keep in mind there's a fine line between "nitpicking" and pointing out honest concerns... I don't plan in going into too many details with the seller... but I will sometimes... I think sharing your enthusiasm and love for finding a project machine and your limitations (limited budget possibly being one of them) can be helpful.

If the seller tries to push "it's worth $5000" or whatever... I don't try to argue with them. Again, a bike is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it! It's just that with this particular bike, that person is not me!

That's my honest opinion. And I often agree with the seller that the bike could be worth that much to the right person... or it could be after paint, etc (good paint job is NOT cheap, check out the price of just the correct paint from Marbles Motors.) Then I just tell them that to me, with my circumstances and the condition of the bike, my top offer is X. Then if they decline, I thank them, sincerely wish them good luck selling it, and walk away. I never budge from my top dollar offer. I just tell them that's the most I'm willing to pay.

I have paid "too much" for some bikes. But I was happy with the price at the time and that's all that matters.

I've also bought bikes for really good prices... like a TW200 four stroke I bought many years ago. I was just honest with the guy about the condition and that I preferred 175 two strokes. I was looking for a bike to teach Angie to ride... the electric start and low seat were the positives I explained... the condition was actually TOO NICE. I expected it to get beat up and dropped a lot. I gave him my top dollar... I think I offered $800... and told him that he could probably get twice that much without too much trouble... which was true. I got it for $800 (probably mostly because he liked Angie, haha) After Angie learned to ride and decided it wasn't for her, sold it for $1600 very easily.

I generally agree with you here MarkT. I'm not really in it to flip so much as I'm interested in having fun (and owning one of these amazing old bikes). If I was trying to flip something, it wouldn't be bikes cause they aren't a good way to make money really. There are much better vehicles for that, namely RVs. That's what my dad has been doing on the side for a couple years.

My main concern is both resale value and not spending past my budget or to the point where I'm uncomfortable having so much money into something. The thing is, I COULD spend a bit past $2000 on a bike, but that would be very, very uncomfortable for me to have spent that much on something. I prefer to keep it cheap and not create a money pit. Plus, if 5 years down the road I want to sell I'd rather not lose money, although that wouldn't be the worst if I used it for 5 years.

That's where the term "lowball" comes in for me. There are at any given time a couple terrible condition and a couple respectable condition Yamaha Enduros available within reasonable distance of me. The issue is, if I were to buy a "cheap" one in terrible condition I would not be able to pay (in both time and money) for the needed repairs and parts to get it to the level I want.

Therefore, I am confined to using the skills and resources I still have access to and which are free. That would be negotiating. If someone lists a bike for $3000 and I can buy it for $1500, I would consider that a lowball offer and likely a win on my end, provided that I can sell it and get my money back out later down the road. I've quickly realized money is made or lost upon purchase, and if you buy a basket case you cannot negotiate with the bike to lower the amount of time or money required to get it into good shape (why I sold my AT3), hence my outlook.

Overall though, I definitely agree with you that it's all about being happy with the price. For me, that means a low price compared to what others might pay. Nice deal you got on that TW200.

Patience seems to be the biggest factor and I can tell that the want ads I've made will probably be what nets me something. Setting up a private deal without other people jockeying for the same item really makes things much easier to manage.

As usual, thank you for the advice and food for thought.

Yeah, my definition of "lowball" is not based on seller asking price... it's based on what the value is to ME.

If someone is asking $3000 and I think it's worth $3000 to me, then offering $1500 is lowballing the seller in my opinion.

If someone is asking $3000 and I feel it's only worth $1500 tops to me, I mean honestly, then offering $1500 is making what I would call a fair offer!

That distinction is important. I think sellers can sense if they are being "played" and also if someone if being fair and honest with them... even if they disagree on the value... and many times I've been in your shoes and it's truly a "budget issue"... I'm open and honest about that too... I might tell them I was hoping it might be in worse condition than it looked in the pictures and tell them my budget is "X" and it's obviously worth more than that. I also thank them for their time.

In other words I don't care that much about what they are asking for a bike. I just make a genuine offer based on my opinion and circumstances.

And there have actually been a few times I've paid more than the asking price... one example was years ago when someone on the old forum had to sell off his bikes for health reasons... I stopped by with my nephew and met the guy for the first time when I was in So Cal visiting family. He knew I liked the 175's and had one that was stripped for dirt... he offered it to me for something like $200 when my nephew got all excited about it... Really nice guy. It was worth at least $350 to me so that's what I paid him... then he insisted on throwing in a bunch of extra parts since he had to move and said he didn't want to mess with them... I think I got almost everything to make it street legal again... that's one of my projects I hope to get to someday.

I do agree that buying a complete bike in decent condition will always put you way ahead of buying one that's thrashed, neglected, and missing parts. Bargain bikes are rarely bargains unless you can can find two or three of the same model and build one nice one out of them... problem with that is the cheap ones usually need the same parts that are expensive to buy.

Yeah I think we're on the same page then.

When I was first looking around for bikes back in September, my initial perspective of things was that I'd be able to find something (easily) that was actually respectable in the ballpark of $400-$600. So, the first bike I went to look at was a $100 bike. That was a good learning experience because I figured out exactly what to stay away from... When we got there and started to look at it, it had been sitting out in the rain, was extremely beaten up, had rust inside the cylinder, and was halfway to the point of being a literal basket case.

I had actually thought going into it that for $100 plus like $500 in parts I'd be able to rebuild it and get something nice. Luckily, I'd done enough research to realize that the exhausts alone are about $300 or more, and so I dodged that bullet.

The worst part of these situations though is that even a bike with most/all the main parts can be missing something that creates a huge pain down the road. For me, my AT3 had some missing crankcase bolts, which apparently did not affect it enough to stop it from running and working fine, but were definitely something that bothered me a lot. Those are definitely one of those parts that even if you can find them for sale will certainly screw you over pricewise in the end. The small stuff really adds up quickly. That's why now I generally look for either very complete or at least running bikes. They at least imply that they won't become money pits.

Good luck with the 175.

Also it kind of seems like for every bike there are those few parts that no matter how easy they should be to get or how insignificant they are they're just impossible to find, which has really bothered me since day one of looking on Ebay for stuff. Like the heat shields for the exhausts... Nowhere to be found at any price point.

I have several NOS and rechromed exhaust shields for '71, '72, '73 DT and RT with emblems and mounting hardware.

Also have complete exhaust pipes.

Send me a PM.

The AT/CT 2 and 3 exhausts and shields do seem rare but I know someone that was looking for one here recently and found a nice complete one like for $50 shipped on Craigslist or Facebook or someplace like that. So they are still out there.

The earlier AT1 and CT1 pipes and shields seem far more available... outlet pipe inserts tend to be hard to find though.

You are doing it right... keep it up and be patient and the right bike at the right price will appear.

Thanks 1971DT250 I will remember it when/if I need it.

MarkT, what you noticed about availability trends with the older pipes is the same thing I saw on Ebay.


I think I might've found my most viable opportunity yet. $1000. Needs only what you can see it's missing. Should run with a carb clean cause it's been stored. Have a lot of hope for this one, it looks like it'd be a comfortable price and keeper of a bike.