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Makotosun

Battery Fitment Advice Needed

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Replied by RT1 on topic Battery Fitment Advice Needed

Good morning fellas!

Mark - that's the best news I could hear!  Thank you for explaining that.  My assumption could've had me chasing my tail.  And Tony also.
I didn't receive any notifications of these responses and earlier was beginning to comment on not having time to reinstall the original RT1 battery box and re-check the fit.  And, I started wondering/commenting on my concerns about the amps.
This may end well!
A note on the use of lithium - it was made clear by VAPE that lithium is not to be used.  Your post clarifies at least one of the reasons.

Gr8uncleal - quite a coincidence on the light having the same battery!  Evening walks ( in the right environment) can be truly enjoyable.  Regarding the system I purchased, Rex's doesn't enter into the equation for me - I purchased a VAPE system direct from the manufacturer.

Tony - I really appreciate the offer to head over to Merritt Island.  If my battery fits, and being that your's is already fitted we may have nothing to worry about!

This all just made my morning.  I'll be very anxious to make the battery box swap tonight.

I've got evolving confidence that it will work out - and that I just wasted everyone's time!  

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  lol

More to come....
'68 DT1, '71 RT1, '71 JT1 (x2), '72 AT2 (x2), '74 DT250A, '75 XS650, '54 BSA C11G, '70 Honda CT70, '73 Hodaka Combat Wombat, '05 Moto-Guzzi Breva, '15 Triumph Tiger, +++

"We are mere custodians of mechanical things. Our job it to care for them, improve them and pass them on to others.” - Peter Egan
The following user(s) Liked this Post: AirborneSilva, Sneezles61
Last edit: 22 Aug 2023 06:54 by RT1.
22 Aug 2023 06:53 #21

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Replied by AirborneSilva on topic Battery Fitment Advice Needed

Not a waste of my time for sure Pete, it gave me the confidence that the battery we have both bought will work just fine for my setup, thanks to Marks explanation!
2023 Tenere T7
1976 DT400C
1975 DT400
1981 DT175H
1972 DT2 250
1980 GT80
1972 JT2
22 Aug 2023 14:19 #22

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Replied by RT1 on topic Battery Fitment Advice Needed

Thanks for the pass Tony
Sneezles definitely got me going in the right direction!
Turned out that my use of an RT2 battery box on an RT1 with the stock RT1 seat was like mixing oil & water.  Didn't / couldn't work.
After discovering that the smaller RT1 battery box sat lower due to the raised mounting tabs my optimism of getting past the fitment proved out.
The boxes were switched last night and the ML1.3-12 battery now fits!
And with MartT addressing the concerns of amps, I have every reason to believe that I now have a completed and operative installation.
Man, talk about getting tripped up!  Right down the ol' rabbit hole.

With the 12v battery issue resolved, a successfully installed VAPE system and all lights (except high beam & flasher indicators) changed out to LED I should have a reliable, trouble free, electrical / ignition system.

ALL suggestions, guidance and schooling was/is always very much appreciated.

Onwards
'68 DT1, '71 RT1, '71 JT1 (x2), '72 AT2 (x2), '74 DT250A, '75 XS650, '54 BSA C11G, '70 Honda CT70, '73 Hodaka Combat Wombat, '05 Moto-Guzzi Breva, '15 Triumph Tiger, +++

"We are mere custodians of mechanical things. Our job it to care for them, improve them and pass them on to others.” - Peter Egan
The following user(s) Liked this Post: MarkT, Gr8uncleal, AirborneSilva, Sneezles61
Last edit: 23 Aug 2023 10:05 by RT1.
23 Aug 2023 10:03 #23

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Replied by AirborneSilva on topic Battery Fitment Advice Needed

I am genuinely please your system is up and running sans a few lights and flasher, those should be the easy parts. I went with good ole incandescent lights for everything but headlight, the signals are quite bright and should be no problem being seen.
2023 Tenere T7
1976 DT400C
1975 DT400
1981 DT175H
1972 DT2 250
1980 GT80
1972 JT2
23 Aug 2023 11:31 #24

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Replied by automan on topic Battery Fitment Advice Needed

LiFePo4? bat fits in my hand.

1Lb.


cliff
23 Aug 2023 11:49 #25

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Replied by RT1 on topic Battery Fitment Advice Needed

I have no idea what this is.  But fitting in your hand is one thing.... fitting in the tiny RT1 battery box (and delivering 12 volts) is something else.
And if that's a lithium - it can't be used.
If you know specifically that the LiFePo4 fits, providing the model # could be useful for others or for my future purchases.
Thanks
'68 DT1, '71 RT1, '71 JT1 (x2), '72 AT2 (x2), '74 DT250A, '75 XS650, '54 BSA C11G, '70 Honda CT70, '73 Hodaka Combat Wombat, '05 Moto-Guzzi Breva, '15 Triumph Tiger, +++

"We are mere custodians of mechanical things. Our job it to care for them, improve them and pass them on to others.” - Peter Egan
23 Aug 2023 12:41 #26

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Replied by MarkT on topic Battery Fitment Advice Needed

Some of the LiFePo4 powersports batteries made for motorcycles and ATV's have expensive and complex charging and safety circuitry.  They could possibly be used with a VAPE. 
That's not the same as using a VAPE to charge a common lithium power tool or other lithium battery that normally uses a special charger.  I do not know of a special circuit equipped LiFePo4 powersports battery  that is small enough to fit.

Example:

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no.co/nlp5
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
23 Aug 2023 13:16 #27

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Replied by automan on topic Battery Fitment Advice Needed

LiFe bats can be up to 14.8vdc
No special charging sequence needed.
No thermal run-away.
No hot ass mishaps.

These are not LI-Ion batteries like in your cell phone.


cliff
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Last edit: 24 Aug 2023 05:31 by automan.
24 Aug 2023 05:29 #28

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Replied by MarkT on topic Battery Fitment Advice Needed

Cliff,

LiFePo4 are reportedly safer....  the NOCO I linked to is LiFePo4.  They so include "safety circuitry".  Is that because of the bad rep other lithium batteries have received?  I don't know for sure.  (I do remember other lithium-containing batteries being called "safe"...  until they weren't) 

Here's a quote from a solar forum "If you put enough heat on a LIFEPO4 Pack it will vent gas out of the cells, that gas will light like propane if enough is vented, then you will have to wait as your whole bank burns down" 

Conventional lead-acid batteries have dangers too. 

I did ask a firefighter at a land speed race about LiFePo4 batteries a couple of years ago as they were always concerned about an electric vehicle catching fire...  they didn't have the equipment to deal with a lithium fire and said they would have to shut down the race and just let it burn out.  Anyway, he said LiFePo4 might be safer but if it is in a fire (external fire engulfing battery is possible) they are still "lithium class" and require the same special firefighting techniques and equipment. 

The biggest unknown for me is that how "clean" the charging power needs to be?  Lead acid is very tolerant of the pulsing DC a stock Yamaha charging system sends to the battery.  Other batteries, not always so tolerant.  And VAPE is far advanced over the the original system so I expect it's a lot "cleaner". 

That said, I would try a LiFePo4 with a VAPE if it had the protection circuits to be safer, "just in case".  I don't know of any that would fit the early battery boxes though..
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
24 Aug 2023 07:39 #29

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Replied by automan on topic Battery Fitment Advice Needed

I've been running a life bat. in my H1 for a few years.
I run 2 diodes to drop voltage below 14.8 at high speeds, since crude shunt regulators overcharge any battery.
Pulsation is RPM x /60 in HZ for single phase. So say 1000 idle RPM is 17HZ. The battery will not suffer.

cliff
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25 Aug 2023 02:04 #30

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