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Makotosun

Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b

  • Roarshqck
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Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b was created by Roarshqck

Wasn’t getting lights with a new battery. I took the key switch apart and there are several wires that have broken loose. Blue, brown and green. I believe I can deduce where they go but I wanted to check the service manual here to make sure I’m right. When I look at the schematic for the key switch the wire colors aren’t in the same order as what I have. At least I don’t think so. Maybe I’m missing something. If anyone has ideas I’d be grateful. 
imgur.com/a/KDAYadY
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19 Sep 2024 15:05 #1

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Replied by Gr8uncleal on topic Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b

CMSNL suggests that RT1B switch is the same as RT2 and RT3. However, I don't recognise some of your wire colours as being the same as on my own RT2.

I am attaching a (very!) rough sketch of the wires on my switch, as viewed from the underside.

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20 Sep 2024 00:28 #2

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Replied by Roarshqck on topic Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b

Thank you GR8UNCLEAL. I’m going to see if I can get it cleaner later today. Some of the wire colors are faded and throwing me off. Like white turning a bit yellow. After staring at my picture vs schematic last night I think the black and white wire might be reversed but that’s tough to see with my pictures. I’ll report back later with what I find. Thanks again for that drawing, I hope you didn’t take apart your switch just for this.
20 Sep 2024 09:15 #3

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Replied by MarkT on topic Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b

BEST method is to assemble the switch correctly (some can be assembled 180 degrees out).  The use an ohm or continuity tester and follow the chart on the wiring diagram which will clearly identify which wire colors connect in each key position. 

For example, the red and brown connect with switch on in position 1.  Then the red, brown, and blue connect with switch in position 2. 

Yamaha had a couple of different switch layouts but by following the wiring diagram chart you can figure it out in seconds and you'll know it's correct.
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
20 Sep 2024 09:30 #4

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Replied by Gr8uncleal on topic Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b

"Thanks again for that drawing, I hope you didn’t take apart your switch just for this."

No, it's one I made a while back when I had one of my switches apart. I was inspired to do it by seeing one for the CT in the Tech Library (much neater than mine!) that someone had produced.

As Mark said, test it against the "legend" in the wiring diagram before refitting - I use a light tester.
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20 Sep 2024 09:58 #5

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Replied by Roarshqck on topic Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b

After testing the switch I get a good connection for the location of the green wire. So I believe that problem is solved.
For the brown and blue wire: the wiring diagram shows the red wire should have a connection to both the brown wire and blue wire. That goes for whether the key is in daytime or nighttime position. I get a positive connection between the red and two broken solder points when the key is in nighttime position. In daytime position I get a connection between the red wire and only one of the broken solder points. And since red, blue and brown wires are supposed to be connected when in nighttime or daytime position I don’t see a process of elimination that would tell me which wire goes where.
20 Sep 2024 13:53 #6

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Replied by MarkT on topic Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b

You're wrong.  I randomly wrote about the red, brown, and blue already.

Here it is again:

For example, the red and brown connect with switch on in position 1.  Then the red, brown, and blue connect with switch in position 2. 
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
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Last edit: 20 Sep 2024 14:56 by MarkT.
20 Sep 2024 14:55 #7

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Replied by Roarshqck on topic Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b

While I now know, other users may find it helpful to know that there are two service manuals for the ‘71 rt1b with conflicting information in the tech library.
imgur.com/a/c8k8Q70

Aside from that I have to say MarkT that it feels like you’re talking down to me in both this post and my previous one. I’ve read this site extensively trying to learn more. I’ve read your stickied post about how new owners should try to do for themselves by taking advantage of the tech library and using partzilla for their diagrams and cross reference for parts that other bikes share with the one you’re looking for. Even if the old timers might know the answer off the top of their head, you’ll benefit by looking for the answer instead of having it handed to you. I like and agree with the sentiment. That why I did searches for people that had a similar problem as mine from this forum. The advice boiled down to “it’s a fifty year old bike take off the tank and see if there is any obvious damage or disconnected wires, if there is nothing obvious it’s time to break out the vom and take apart the main switch. Do an ohm test according to the directions in the service manual found in the tech library.” That’s what I did, followed the good advice of people here before I asked a question. Until i saw my switch looked nothing like what I found in the tech library. Which certainly threw me for a loop. All of which is to say that I don’t think I’m deserving of such a dismissive attitude. I know from reading here that you are one of the most knowledgeable people about these old bikes and that’s what I came here for, knowledge. I’m willing to learn. But it quickly becomes not worth it when I get talked down to. I’d prefer no help rather than the resentful help you are offering.
21 Sep 2024 08:11 #8

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Replied by MarkT on topic Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b

Roarshqck,

My original post was concise and correct advice to assemble the switch and use the "chart on the wiring diagram" to determine where the wires go.   In my advice I even mentioned Yamaha had different switch layouts.  (This makes using the "pin out" method less than perfect in my experience.)  Beyond that, by dumb luck I gave a specific example of the exact three wires you ended up getting confused by.   I was only trying to help.  I was being factual and not being "dismissive" at all, I just gave solid advice. And I can't control how you feel. 

So then you posted about your confusion about the red, brown, and blue wires.  You even said there was no way to figure it out by process of elimination. 

Did you post a question about why the information I posted about three wires was different from what you found?  No. Did you use the "chart on the wiring diagram" I mentioned to find the incorrect information and conflicting information? No. Did you post where you found the incorrect and conflicting information in your "confused" post I responded to?  No.

You acted completely indifferent and disregarded all the information in my post. 
(Dismissive definition: Showing indifference or disregard)

Your justification now is "two different manuals".  Again, then why didn't you question the wiring information I had taken the time to write?   Or why didn't you post or reference the manual page you decided to use? ...another clue could have been the manual page you posted is NOT a chart on the wiring diagram, is it? 

Your actions and words show you completely dismissed and ignored what I said...

So yes, in my "You're wrong post" could I have been gentler and asked where you got your information...  blah, blah, blah... ???  Absolutely.  I've done that countless times.  Frankly though, I'm tired of dealing with people asking for help and maintaining the attitude that the experienced person trying to help is wrong because they misunderstood, found some conflicting information someplace that they don't bother to share, or heard it from their uncle's cousin who used to work at Honda and says all the Japanese bikes were like that. (in retrospect, I should not have responded at all.  You were convinced it was "impossible", so I should have just left it at that.)

I know how frustrating problems can be, especially with electrical.  I certainly don't know everything.  I can be wrong sometimes... usually when I jump to a conclusion without being given all the facts...   But I always do my best to help.  Including granting your wish...  there is no reason for me to spend my time trying to help you or anyone else.  You'd probably eventually figure it out.  Maybe after spending hundreds on a NOS switch or something...  but why should I care?

Example of a chart on the wiring diagram from a different bike..  though the RT1b chart is probably the same.  Yamaha was pretty consistent.

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1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
21 Sep 2024 10:05 #9

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Replied by Roarshqck on topic Help with key switch wiring ‘71 rt1b

“ You even said there was no way to figure it out by process of elimination.”

No, I did not.

“ You were convinced it was "impossible"”

No again. I didn’t say nor imply it was impossible. I stated clearly where my sticking point was. I think you’re making up things I said to justify your emotional outburst of “you are wrong”.

“ I've done that countless times. Frankly though, I'm tired of dealing with people asking for help and maintaining the attitude that the experienced person trying to help is wrong”

Yeah your tiredness is obvious but no where did I say or imply you or anyone here is wrong. Nor am I responsible for what you have done “countless times” or some uncle cousins worked at Honda crap. You’re carrying around old shit and laying it at my feet as if it’s mine.

“ then why didn't you question the wiring information I had taken the time to write?”

I find you passive aggressive which made me reluctant to engage with you. Or question you. And again that’s despite knowing full well you know your stuff maybe better than anyone here. My intent wasn’t to snub you. But I’m not going to be anyone’s punching bag either.

“ Maybe after spending hundreds on a NOS switch or something... but why should I care?”

That’s what I’ve been wondering too. No one makes you do this (I assume).

“ Including granting your wish...”

Ok I screwed up here. If I knew you were granting wishes I certainly would have asked for something different. Oh well I can keep it in mind for the next time I encounter an angry genie in a bottle.
22 Sep 2024 00:02 #10

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