Thanks Wes, haven't been riding it much.  I ride it in the morning to the gym or just for a short ride then it gets too hot/humid or it rains (and is still hot and humid ). 

Ethanol bearing fuels are bad news for everyone, except those producing ethanol and selling fuel!

I referred to dyno testing, as a guy with a bike dyno testing business used to be next door to my workshop unit. Did lots of road race stuff, 4 and 2T.

All modern day pump fuels had quite a big effect on performance, and it wasn't one you would want!

On bikes which are used infrequently, phase separation of fuel, can be a major problem, and will lead to the type of issues jmendoza mentions above.

I shouldn't care. 

Yamfan, back in post 35 you made some extremely  "questionable" claims that I countered.  Here is your post in it's entirety: 

Yamfan wrote: "All the DT Yamaha's were designed to run on proper fuel. Power will be reduced when ethanol type fuels are used, but can be partially restored with changes to jetting.

Leaded fuel, means more power, better fuel economy, and cooler running. Used to be available in the UK, but not sure now? "

I countered your claims with facts.

(And yes, for the record I agree with JMendoza as what he is posted is accurate.)

Both power and cooling can be greatly improved with ethanol fuels.  Perhaps even economy depending on oil prices vs. ethanol prices.  (Several years ago I used E85 in my E85 capable Ford...  it was about $2 a gallon here with gas at the time at about $4 a gallon.  The difference in price more than made up for the loss of about 4 mpg.)

Biggest downside is the corrosion, especially during storage. 

 

Ethanol fuels have a lower calorific value, which in most cases means reduced power. The lower power output, means wider throttle openings, and that decreases MPG.

In terms of cooling the lower calorific value, means less heat in the combustion chamber (which lowers power), but will certainly reduce running temperature, with the same throttle openings.

The main downsides of using these fuels in an old 2T though, are issues related to lubrication, and phase separation, affecting bikes which are used infrequently.

Both problems can be overcome though, put a small amount of 2T oil in the fuel, to improve lubrication, and drain the tank and carb, if a bike is not going to be ridden for a while.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#/me...e:Energy_density.svg

I hope this link comes thru, which shows specific energy for various fuels in terms of MJ/KG and MJ/L.  Looks like gasoline has more oomph that E85 on both measures, which was a surprise to me (thinking nitromethane)

I vote for hydrozene, which I was involved with for a bit as as a younger guy (turbine with useful life of a few minutes, then boom).  if you could get some and jet for it, not dissolve fuel system or poison yourself you could attach wings and fly!

okay, back to reality.  I am not a greenie but glad lead was phased out as an antiknock agent, I think I might have been over-exposed as a child 
 

MSavitt, Yes, E85 has less energy density which means you need to use more...  but as you probably know living in a "hot rod" mecca, the guys running E85 are making way more HP than they can on gasoline.  The claim that ethanol means reduced power is the opposite of the truth.  Just as the claims made about leaded gasoline were not at all accurate. 

A claim, like JMendoza made, that you need to use a lot more alcohol than gasoline?  Absolutely true. 

The way to tell the difference between a truth and a non-truth?  The truth doesn't need someone to argue for it.  It just is.  Ethanol fuels such as E85 are proven to be capable of making far more power than gasoline.  No amount of intelligent-sounding language about "calorific values" is going to change that fact. 

The topic of "leaded fuel" that morphed into "ethanol" is pretty meaningless.  I chose it on purpose to show how people will make intelligent-sounding yet vague arguments to support a non-truth. 

We've all probably done it.  Some do it more than others.

Repair topics and parts advice are different as they can have real-life consequences.  And while most of us have nothing but good intentions and a true desire to help...  Always remember, "READER BEWARE".  Just because you read it on a forum and it sounds intelligent doesn't mean it's good advice or even true. 








 

 THANKS MarkT 

Mark - you triggered a memory I saw on a hot rod shot about top fuel dragsters.   If I recall the reason nitromethane make way more power than gas was something to the effect that you can burn a ton more of it than you can with gas. Assuming same applies to ethanol.  I wasn’t asserting a truth, just trying to understand.  I makes sense that while you might get more power from a unit of gas that if you can burn multiple more units of ethanol like I sort of recall from late night tv that you produce more power?

It's actually more about being able to burn more air (oxygen).  It's about the properties and chemistry.  Alky has great anti-knock properties and like I mentioned a "cooling effect" which makes for denser air in the intake charge, which equals more power.  And nitromethane is oxygen-bearing fuel, which equals more power.

P.S. I know you weren't challenging me... I didn't mean to give you that impression.... and I don't ever mind being challenged. The one thing I know for sure is that there's a hell of a lot more that I don't know than I think I do.