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Sticky first gear

  • johnlpainter
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Sticky first gear was created by johnlpainter

Some gentle riding around the house to adjust, tighten things up, and look for issues and I found an issue - I’m not sure what’s going on.  

When I put my engine back together, everything was good, gears, dogs, forks, etc, etc and everything in its place.  With the engine off I can shift through gears without issue. With the engine running, I can’t get the bike to go/stay in 1st. All the other gears are great, and while riding I can shift down into 1st.  As soon as I stop, with engine running, I can’t get it back into 1st.  But if I shut the engine off, it will go into 1st.

I’m stumped.  Any suggestions?
25 Jul 2021 16:30 #1

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Replied by Swoop56 on topic Sticky first gear

It sounds like a dragging clutch  . A couple of things that could cause that are ,
Too heavy an oil grade in the gearbox , or
warped steel plates in the clutch , not allowing a complete disengagement .
That may not be the problem , but suggestions as to possibilities .
 
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25 Jul 2021 21:27 #2

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Replied by johnlpainter on topic Sticky first gear

I pulled the side cover off and looked the clutch over, the steel plates were good I thought the friction plates were tired so I put in new ones.  I didn’t make any difference, though the other gears sure do work good! 

So before I tear the engine down again for something that needs to be addressed some other way, I thought I’d post a video to give some sense how it’s running.  When my bike is off I can shift into 1st gear. When the engine is running it just shudders you can see it very clear and will not go into 1st, it just kind of bounces. 

Last edit: 02 Aug 2021 18:07 by johnlpainter.
02 Aug 2021 16:51 #3

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Replied by RT325 on topic Sticky first gear

Hmmm--unusual & if its internal--like right inside i'd think it'd be not holding while riding under power, not that you go far in first. Do wonder about circlip 24 holding first gear big wheel into the shaft as without that it would sit out further limited by the case & washer. It sort of seems like the claw arm is picking up the pins late & not pulling the drum around far enough. Maybe look behind the clutch & study the drum pins & mechanism & how far it pulls it compared to fully in gear if you turned the drum the rest of the movement by hand--or screwdriver etc. I'll link the other pages too because i'm looking at them. Return spring set parallel. That wouldn't cause the issue but i've seen them fitted still crossed so no spring return to central but wouldn't limit full travel into gear although screw 19 in shifter 2 diagram could limit full travel one way or other but would affect all gears equally or not come back central so you have the same free travel up & down to pick up the next pin. I'm woffling lol--hard to explain.

www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcy.../it175e/transmission
www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcy...978/it175e/shifter-1
www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcy...978/it175e/shifter-2
02 Aug 2021 17:12 #4

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Replied by johnlpainter on topic Sticky first gear

Thank you RT325. I’m just stumped why the bike positively shifts into 1st when not running, but just bounces on it and never goes in when the engine is running.

I will take the right side off again and look around that side again, maybe behind the clutch before splitting the case, since I’m not sure at this point what I’m looking for though your suggestions are some reasonable clues.  Thanks
02 Aug 2021 18:05 #5

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Replied by msavitt on topic Sticky first gear

I would get manual and check shifter 1 and 2 for damage, wear and adjustment cause it would be a much shorter fix and time to be riding that splitting cases

if first gear dogs are gone you would probably find chunks in the oil and munching and crunching as the other gears eat it, but you say its shifting great 2 - 5 so I hope you find issue in shifter mechanism on clutch side

good luck!
 
02 Aug 2021 18:50 #6

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Replied by johnlpainter on topic Sticky first gear

msavitt I’m not sure I know what you mean by shifter 1 and 2.  The dogs looked fine, and no metal chunks in oil now, and I don’t think 1st would engage and hold when the bike is not running without them. With engine off, I can put it into 1st, and it stays. 

It’s almost like the clutch isn’t engaging when the bike is running, but only for 1st.  You have me wondering…  if I need to adjust (in or out) push rod 1 thats on the clutch side, holding back the ball bearing and 2nd push rod? 
Last edit: 02 Aug 2021 19:12 by johnlpainter.
02 Aug 2021 19:07 #7

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Replied by MarkT on topic Sticky first gear

The manual has very specific and easy to follow adjustment instructions for both the clutch and shifter.  That would be the first thing to check.

What's your engine serial number?  There was a bulletin on a shift linkage modification for certain 1W2 engines.
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
02 Aug 2021 19:34 #8

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Replied by johnlpainter on topic Sticky first gear

Thank you again MarkT.  I’ll take a closer look at that section!
03 Aug 2021 03:56 #9

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Replied by msavitt on topic Sticky first gear

Shifter 1 and shifter 2 is how the parts diagrams break down sections of the shifter gizmo, which to Mark's point and mine have specific adjustments.  If ratchet pawl looks good and no junk in oil then this seems to reinforce an adjustment issue....the gizmo is perhaps biased towards moving the shifter drum more in the 2 - 5 direction than the other way to 1.
03 Aug 2021 08:52 #10

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