facebook1   youtube1   twitter1   instagram   linkedin1   pinterest1

logosmallNOTICE:  If you are not a free registered member of the site, you will not see the photos in the forum, and you won't be able to access our premium member content. Please consider joining our community!

DT1 Brakes

15 Feb 2020 23:36
Benlypage
Novice
Novice
Posts: 40
More
Topic Author
DT1 Brakes #1
In the congested UK , modern cars have great brakes and stop so fast my old ‘68 DT1 sometimes struggles with the small front brake. I wondered if anyone had fitted a twin leading shoe front brake plate from another model to the DT1?
I know could fit a disc but I want to improve the braking but dont want to change the look or modify the bike.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

16 Feb 2020 17:37
RT325
Collector
Collector
Posts: 4518
More
DT1 Brakes #2
On my 'abomination' of a DT1[mx] motor in an R5 frame it has the twin leading shoe brake which works great. But a lifetime ago i had these forks & wheel in my DT1 ride to work bike. Ummm, in hindsight it might've been my RT1 & they had allow lowers so probably just bolted the wheel in [too long ago but looked mean lol]. Yours has the steel slider lower legs with the narrow anchor on the forks so problem one--unless there's a way around it. If you use DT1F or later alloy lowers forks you'll need the yokes [triples] too. Other thing is it's an "18 wheel but for the road it wouldn't be a bad thing. Anyway now i've confused everybody--thinking back to the CS3 or CS5 they had the steel lowers & a good twin brake too so providing the axle size is the same then might be in with a chance on yours. R% brake is bigger though.
Attachments:
The following user(s) Liked this Post RT360Fan, Badger52, KennyV

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

17 Feb 2020 06:00
Super90
Sportsman
Sportsman
Posts: 79
More
DT1 Brakes #3
I have to say that the responses and know;ledge on this forum are amazing. I wished I live near RT325 (the BEST posts ever but I'm in Florida so that ain't happening) or Mark T. Those two guys have the best stories and information. I thought about living near DEET too but I would drive him crazy with questions. As for the brakes, my 73 Honda CB175 has awesome brakes for the period. My 67 S90, not so much.....

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

17 Feb 2020 09:50
Pillsbury
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Posts: 712
More
DT1 Brakes #4
Yes, both the Suzuki T500 (red & black bike) & the Honda 450 red & white bike. For street the honda 350 brake will work quite well,

1970 DT1-C Grand Prix race bike
1970 DT1-C Street tracker
1968 Honda CL90
1973 Honda CR250
1974 Honda MR-50
1966 Triumph Tiger Cub
1970 Suzuki TC90
1947 Mustang
1974 Suzuki TC185
Attachments:
The following user(s) Liked this Post mdscott, Badger52

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

20 Feb 2020 05:56
tim191k
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
More
DT1 Brakes #5
I strongly suggest Michael (Mercury) Morris for brake work. He runs 'Vintage Brake'. www.vintagebrake.com/drumspec.htm

CB 450 brake: 200mm 2LS, 30mm wide,15mm axle, 40 hole, excellent internal-to- external leverage ratio, robust hub, cast iron bearing and actuating cam bores, long linings (more area than the 5mm wider Yamaha), shoes wrap around the posts, a pretty good copy of a Fontana. Two versions: one at 11lb. 2 oz; the other at 10lb. 6 oz. Clevises riveted on. The CB72/77 is similar, with 36 hole hub. Both use a stay mount. 42mm bearing OD make larger axle sizes possible.


Yamaha XS650: 200mm 2LS, 35mm wide, 17mm axle, 36 hole, good pre-holed hub and scooped backplate, swap bearings for 20 or 25mm axle, lug mount. 3 things not to like: wimpy 6mm link rod in compression, master and slave arms work through different leverage ratios, actuating cams do not locate shoes.

Suzuki T500: 200mm 2LS, 40mm wide, 36 hole, 15mm axle, the lightest of the "Big 3". Too light, apparently, as cracking seems to be a question of when, not if. Rusty Foard tested one of Tim's cracked hubs at the Naval Lab, and it only took 200lbs of side force to explode it. Rick Breckon welds reinforcing ribs in, but the bearing bore seems to suffer. Trick looking hub, dinky bearings lock you in to a 15mm axle. Okay leverage ratio, pressed-steel lever arms, lug mount, 4.5mm link rod. Lug mounts can be used on non-lug forks with a plate from fender mount to axle and attached lug.

180mm brakes--these can be made to work, but the leverage ratio of drum diameter-to-contact patch is real critical in this area. Best of the bunch is the CB160--a small version of the CB 450. The 180mm Yamaha is pretty good (see Jay), and the CB350 can work with some backplate blueprint work. I think the double sided 180mm SLS Grimeca is a bit of a toad. It's weighs 11 lbs., 2 oz., has just OK linings, and the brand new one I have in here, has extremely sloppy actuating cam bores. There does not appear to be ANY machined surfaces on the shoes or backplates, save threads. The axle and actuating cam bores appear to be as-cast, with attendant tolerances. Even the splines and thrust faces on the actuating cams look to be as stamped/forged. Most discouraging are the "dead" end of the shoes, which are only semi-parallel to the actuating cam faces. That said, it can be made to work.

Aftermarket 4LS: 230mm Grimeca--Big bang for the buck, but at 21+lbs (a little less than a stock water buffalo), you better not care about turn-in. Stock shoes O.K. 210-230mm Fontana replicas (about 14 lbs in mag): Best-Dick Hunt, comes with 2520V available here; cheapest-Menani, needs relining, poor quality . Molnar--getting better, comes with 2520V. George Beale-comes with 2520V. Smith-Shoukai; heavy (AL), needs relining and rebushing, new.
The following user(s) Liked this Post Snglsmkr, Pillsbury

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

20 Feb 2020 08:33 20 Feb 2020 08:37 by Pillsbury.
Pillsbury
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Posts: 712
More
DT1 Brakes #6
If anyone is interested in a good front stopper, I have (2) 40 hole CB450 brakes for sale, one early, one late. $120 for the complete set. $90 for the set that does not have the correct length cams, but there is a nos short set included for trading purposes. Here is a picture of both, includes speedo drives. Both are in good condition, no cracks or warps & also include (OLD USED DON'T RUN) shoes for fitting purpose only. The other backing plate is for a rear Honda DLS.

1970 DT1-C Grand Prix race bike
1970 DT1-C Street tracker
1968 Honda CL90
1973 Honda CR250
1974 Honda MR-50
1966 Triumph Tiger Cub
1970 Suzuki TC90
1947 Mustang
1974 Suzuki TC185
Attachments:
The following user(s) Liked this Post Snglsmkr

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

20 Feb 2020 13:44
tim191k
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
More
DT1 Brakes #7
I am interested in this items. What model honda used the DLS brake panel? Is that a drawn design on the one hub? I can't see it well.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

20 Feb 2020 15:09
Super90
Sportsman
Sportsman
Posts: 79
More
DT1 Brakes #8
here is a photo of my 73 CB175 Honda. I have a set of these from another CB175 175 laying about. They stop the bike really well.
Attachments:
The following user(s) Liked this Post KennyV

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

20 Feb 2020 16:04 20 Feb 2020 16:06 by Pillsbury.
Pillsbury
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Posts: 712
More
DT1 Brakes #9

tim191k wrote: I am interested in this items. What model honda used the DLS brake panel? Is that a drawn design on the one hub? I can't see it well.


The Honda CL/CB 72 used dual leading shoe front & rear with 36 hole hubs & the Cb450's used the same with 40 hole hubs.. There is slight differences in year models but they are all good brakes. Because they use a brake stay they are easy to adapt to different forks.
The pattern on there was a mock up of what I was going to do on my CB72 brake. I was going to add an air scoop & relocated the stay stud. Instead Gerhart Klemm cut impeller slots on the hub side and the air exhausts on the backing plate side and she cools good. Here are some pics of the work.

1970 DT1-C Grand Prix race bike
1970 DT1-C Street tracker
1968 Honda CL90
1973 Honda CR250
1974 Honda MR-50
1966 Triumph Tiger Cub
1970 Suzuki TC90
1947 Mustang
1974 Suzuki TC185
Attachments:
The following user(s) Liked this Post Snglsmkr, KennyV

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

20 Feb 2020 19:11
tim191k
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
More
DT1 Brakes #10
So the dls rear backing plate fits a 450 rear hub? What kind of bike do you have. I am considering a DT1 for AHRMA classic, but I don't know what frame to use. Can a stock DT1 frame be made to work?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: yamadminDmanEnduronutMakotosunDEETVinnieDevinJames Hart